Dear Rosy Episode 1
Rosy 00:00:02 Hello, hello. Hey, Saeed.
Sayeed 00:00:04 Hey, Rosy.
Rosy 00:00:05 Well welcome. Welcome to our first number one episode for our podcast. I'm really excited to be here. My name is Rosie Magaña. I'm a licensed clinical professional counselor, first gen Latina. And I've been working with organizational health and also with individuals and groups around trauma-informed wellness and work and supporting ourselves so we can figure out how to create a life we look forward to waking up to every day. So looking at different systems in our life. Sayeed, will you tell me a little bit about yourself? Just how you introduce yourself?
Sayeed 00:00:43 Yes, of course. Hi, y'all. My name is Sayeed Sanchez. I am the advocacy manager for Mujeres. Uh, actually just reached three years here. So it’s my third year anniversary this summer. I work on issues of immigrant justice, economic justice, access to women's health and confronting gender-based violence. Those are kind of my advocacy and policy focus areas for my role. And I have the privilege and pleasure to be here with Rosy today.
Rosy 00:01:09 Yeah. And we're here hoping to support other people doing similar work, supporting survivors around survivors and other people who do gender based violence work. Correct, Sayeed?
Sayeed 00:01:20 Yes, that is very correct.
Rosy 00:01:22 We're hoping that we can answer some questions, address some topics that'll help you figure out how to move forward in your life, your career, and just your day to day to make sure that you're taking best care of yourself, in an individual lens and an organizational health lens. But we also want you to get to know us even beyond just our work titles too, because, you know, it's, it's nice to get to know each other. Right? I wanna get to know Sayeed a little bit more too. So we're gonna do these kind of icebreaker questions, I guess you can call them. Not my favorite, but,
Sayeed: Bear with us
Rosy: But you know, they are important. Sometimes they're helpful. So the question I brought today, so this episode, I'm bringing the question and the question is, what is your favorite thing to do on a day off when you get one or when you ask for one, hopefully before you burnt out and are crying so you have space to actually do something. What is your favorite thing?
Sayeed 00:02:14 Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Rosie. Um, I think number one, one of the simple luxuries of a day off and really trying to center wellness is really just, um, sleeping in, getting that first time. If I can have an ideal day, because we know the rhythm, we know the nine to five or whatever, especially in our jobs, maybe even different hours to meet our community members' needs. I appreciate being able to sleep in. And in the summer, if I can go by the water, I live about 10, 15 minutes away, walk away from the lake, which is really beautiful. So lake Michigan is really nice to go see. And then I think from my activities, a way that I like to restore myself is either around like art, music and food. Even better if it's a combination of all three of them.
Sayeed 00:03:02 But you might find me on my day off cooking a nice little meal, a home cooked meal, or you might find me listening to some music or going to see live music in the summer. That's something I absolutely love. I think one of the pleasures of of living in Chicago is such a beautiful city is that there's so much rich cultural activities. And on a day off you can find a lot of things to do, especially in the summer that are also like free or pretty accessible, easy to get to. And so that's probably what you're gonna do. You're gonna find me making the most of my day, for sure.
Rosy 00:03:36 That sounds like a great day. I also love that you started out with like sleeping in, you know, listening to our bodies and you still also filled it with a bunch of different options. And when I hear you talking about all the different options, especially including nature, and then music and art, I also think about like how it doesn't have to be one way that your day off looks and just be open to what you can do. And then community oriented. Right? I hear you talking about what you can do in Chicago and like events. That's great. All those things are things I like to do as well. I talk about my wellness and, and what works for me and sometimes in now recently in seasons, the one thing I need I like to do is listen to my body and listen to myself and figure out what it is I need.
Rosy 00:04:18 As a mom of a two and a half year old now, the needs I have now and what I have access to, has changed, than before <laugh> 3, 4, 5 years ago. Right. Um, sometimes I take a day off just so I can lay in bed for a couple hours and independently maybe have a meal without, maybe still taking my child to daycare or whatever, or someone else supporting him and getting my day off on my own. But I also do like to spend days that are special to me with him, maybe taking a bike ride or going to a coffee shop and just a light stroll. I don't feel like I always have all the energy I used to have to participate. <laugh> sometimes in the bigger events. Yeah. But I have energy to maybe go for a walk or do something local, but I do like to move my body in some way. Sometimes maybe I'll do a class, some sort of a yoga class. I do also like the nature piece, so day at the park or maybe I just like sleep.
Sayeed 00:05:15 And sometimes you just need to listen to your body and really be able to check in with yourself. I think especially kind of in the nature of the work that we do, we're always, we're often putting others' needs before our own. So sometimes even just that day off is a nice moment or opportunity to really reflect and listen in. Like, what does my mind need? What does my body need? What does my spirit need? Um, and I don't know about you, but when I get the luxury to take a day off here or there, it even just having the week be a little bit shorter, it's helpful to kind of pace myself or reset it, you know, when sometimes one day off when you have a lot of clients, community members, actions, events, et cetera. Sometimes you really just need that extra sleep.
Rosy 00:05:55 <laugh>. Yeah. It's nice when you can start getting to know yourself that you know how to be proactive about those and even set that up, right? So if you know you have a big project or event or fundraiser that you're helping coordinate, then you take the day after off. If that's possible. And like, be thoughtful and pay attention to those days beforehand when you've been doing it for a while. Um, sometimes it's hard to listen to ourselves though. So today's episode we are talking about being gentle, but firm holding people and ourselves accountable. And I think taking days off really goes along with that because giving ourselves space to take time for ourselves is holding ourselves accountable for our wellness and also for our future success. 'cause burnout is not gonna go well for us. And there are some things sometimes we can control, which is communicating and setting expectations and asking for things.
Rosy 00:06:44 Sometimes there's some work cultures that feels like we can't ask. Um, so we can talk a little bit about that too. But then where could that start? Right? It starts where you start applying for a job or looking for a job and looking at the values of the, of that organization, that place that what, what they're talking to you when they're interviewing, what are they giving you a clear expectations of what your job's gonna look like? Are they also talking about how they make sure that they're providing some support and wellness for their employees? And what that looks like. What are the benefits? What are your thoughts on that? What are things that maybe when you were looking for a job, that you thought about asking around maybe wellness and accountability.
Sayeed 00:07:27 Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think, um, even as you're noting right from the stage of applying to a job is kind of already kind of sharing you a bit about their values and morals, what's important to the organization, and already giving you a window into what you might expect before you even, you know, set a foot into the door. And so for me, when that comes to the accountability, I really think about the sort of mutual accountability. And as a value horizontal, I look at it, right? It's like, I'm gonna be accountable to my supervisor, my supervisor's gonna be accountable to me. Does that begin with a clear communication of expectations of what my role and my responsibilities are? Can I tell from the way that this position has been drafted to the responsibilities, to the salary, salary, transparency? Is there a range, right? Or do I have to kind of go in digging or play the, you know, guess in check game.
Sayeed 00:08:15 All of these things are already giving me some pretty helpful hints as to what I should expect, and as to, as well, like what the culture of accountability and what the around communication is at this prospective organization. One thing I did appreciate about Mujeres, when I did apply just three years ago, is that they put the salary, um, range and band right at the, at the front. And at that time that wasn't necessarily required or expected. And even in our sector isn't always always the case. So I learned it's something I shouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily take advantage for, but that is important to me as a value stance that hey, that's from the get go, that's something we can talk about, that we can discuss. And before I even put in necessarily an application, outta respect for my time and the organization's time is that price range or salary that I would be able to work or that I feel is reflective of, of my value. So that's just one example. You're already learning from it from the way that they write up the draft, um, before you even get to the interview. Right. What are they including in the description of the position?
Rosy 00:09:19 Yeah. You're talking a lot about transparency, right?
Sayeed Mm-hmm
Rosy And clear communication. And I've done quite a few organizational health assessments on places, talking about work culture and morale for employees. And one of the first things that always comes up is transparency. And then you brought up salary. I don't, you know, I was gonna say, I dunno, but I do know <laugh>, why we are secretive around salary. So when someone can be upfront about the salary, I think it really says something about the values at that organization and how they value transparency. And they don't have shame around that, and they're trying not to create a culture of secrecy around how they compensate employees. And that compensation for employees is important. Something else that I've appreciated when I've gone on interviews in the past is when staff are involved in the actual interview,
Sayeed: Ooh, say more.
Rosy 00:10:10 Giving you access to other employees who actually know who actually are
working there day to day and know the culture. It's not just the main boss. It's not just who's gonna be your boss or HR person, but actual fellow staff. And when you have access to fellow staff, it does speak a little bit to how they're invested in their staff. And they wanna know what their staff think about who they're bringing onto the team and also that they're not too scared of you having access to them. And you can actually ask them some questions about what does it actually look like to focus on transparency around making sure that people are taking care of themselves or that that, you know, when you are meeting with your supervisor and that that's expected that you will meet with your supervisor and that when you ask for that support that you're receiving it. Um, so I, I think that that's a really great practice. And, and it's not what everyone can do as well because sometimes you're getting hired into a place that maybe doesn't even have, um, a big team. So there isn't a huge staff to talk to, but it is appreciated when you can talk to what could possibly be your peers.
Sayeed 00:11:13 Absolutely. And I think one thing, a theme that's coming out that you are sharing too is you are not only being interviewed for this position, you're also interviewing them to see if it's a good fit. Right? So again, part of that part of understanding, right, organizational culture, part of understanding that you are also envisioning not only are the skills and tools you bring a good fit for the organization, you are seeing if you, you yourself or the values find alignment with that and that you already learning kind of hints and tips in an interview. Right? Always think of this as a two-way street or that's how I go about it. One, I think that honestly takes a little bit of the anxiety away of interviewing, let's be real. And interviewing is anxiety inducing because you're out there, it's kind of vulnerable, you're clearly you need a position, et cetera.
Sayeed 00:12:01 But I think there is, for me at least the sense of, hey, actually I'm applying for this and I've gotten to the phase, they're interested, we've gotten to the point of the interview, clearly they see something in me and they're looking to confirm that this is also an opportunity for me to confirm that this is a good fit. Right. And I like that you bring in, um, interviews that have other teammates who are in a horizontal position, not just necessarily upwards with your supervisors, but even horizontally who are your teammates? What is your team like? This is something that's gonna hold for, you know, a small organization or very large. Most people are going, we're gonna have to work with others, especially in sort of the nature of the role that we do. And so seeing that we're a good fit and seeing that the values and that we can kind of gel together is really nice. And for me, I'm like, I'm not gonna be afraid to ask some of those questions in terms of organizational health and team and teamwork and some of those values because it's genuinely in the spirit of accountability and transparency, knowing if I'm gonna look like a good, be a good fit, um, with the actual position and with the team.
Rosy 00:13:01 Yeah. And people who wanna have a healthier culture or culture based around caring about each other's wellness are gonna invest time and effort. Beause a lot of the things we're talking about really require extra time and effort. And also once you get there, I think it's important to talk about how are you communicating your needs. Like you said, you're also interviewing, so now you're assigned to a supervisor and this is your manager or supervisor, um, and you wanna make sure that you're both on the same page. Yes. We had that job description. So sometimes people, you get hired and you just start meeting with people, but you're not really setting out the expectations of each other, how often you're going to meet, how long you're gonna meet, what's gonna be discussed when you meet. Sometimes it's good to document all of that too.
Rosy 00:13:44 Create some sort of a little outline, figure out what your needs are as a supervisee from your supervisor and ask for them. Mind you, they may say no because they might not have the time in the day, but maybe ask for alternatives. Is there a way for peer support? Sometimes you need to be creative, things like that. We know that being in the helping field, sometimes you have to get creative pretty often, but that doesn't mean that you don't get to ask. Instead, sometimes we are ending up, we've already been there for a couple weeks or even sometimes years and we're like, I never meet with my supervisor or I am missing this. You can still ask for it. I definitely encourage people to still ask for it, but it's nice to be able to start with that.
Sayeed 00:14:27 Absolutely. No, and something that I wanna pull out or kind of dig into is this idea around, right, we're talking around the context of applying for a new position and in the context of this podcast, right? We're thinking around a sector for supporting survivors of gender based violence and knowing for direct service providers you have a lot of experience, right? Working kind of with direct service providers. Some of these issues around how we care for one of ourselves. I just, for context, I myself am not a direct service provider, but obviously many of my coworkers colleagues are, and my advocacy is inextricably linked to supporting them and uplifting some of those needs. So I'd love to just talk to you, Rosy, and kind of hear your thoughts on how do we sort of work on this idea around wellness and what does it look like to, um, start interpolating a bit of wellness for direct service providers knowing that so much is being asked of y'all, right. So much from the day to day. And so that's why we're kind of intentional even thinking about what does wellness look like on our day off? Because let's face it, we always, we don't always necessarily get a lot of time for that.
Rosy 00:15:30 Yeah. And what kind of people are going into these fields usually is we are already helpers, right? We are already usually the one that people go to even outside of work to seek support or help or we're the good listeners. We're the good problem solvers. We're great in crisis, you know, so we're, we're kind of even used to living in this place of give, give, give and just 'cause we're used to it, and just because it's, um, comfortable and the fact that we're used to it, not because it feels good, but it feels good 'cause it's, it's something we know, it doesn't always mean it's gonna be sustainable. Right. So I think the, the first, one of the first things I say about wellness or about, you know, taking care of yourself is to get to know yourself, right? To really get to know yourself and figure out what does it look like, um, when you are feeling burnt out, what does it look like when you're feeling stressed?
Rosy 00:16:22 Like what are some symptoms or some signs that are happening in your life? And if you don't know, if you have a person in your life that's kind of close to you, sometimes they have a little bit better perspective than you. I've been in jobs where supervisors will ask that of the person they supervise. Hey, how do I know that you're, you're starting to feel burnt out or that you're feeling really stressed or maybe you're getting pushed to your limits? Or what does it look like when you're being a little overly stressed, just to, you know, let me get a heads up and see what should I look out for. It's not their job to take care of ourselves, but it's nice to know that they wanna keep somewhat of an eye. I do think that overworking and sacrificing ourselves sometimes can be a little normalized in the social services.
Rosy 00:17:09 And I really don't think that's fair to us because we all deserve care as we care for others. Because if we don't care for ourselves, how are we going to take care of others? Again, not sustainable. So I think wellness is first just admitting that we might not know what wellness even looks like for us. I, as a therapist, I was years into already being a therapist and profession and doing therapy and I was doing my own work. And I had, you know, my therapist be like, you know, you're gonna work on some self-compassion, Rosy. And I'm like, okay, I got this, you know, I'm gonna work on self-compassion this week. And then I got home like, I don't know how to do this. 'cause self-compassion is about treating yourself like you would treat your best friend and like being really gentle to yourself and, you know, and realizing that when you, you know, telling yourself when you make a mistake, you're only human and we all make mistakes.
Rosy 00:18:00 And that was really hard. I really realized how, I was socialized and learned to put a lot of who I was into thinking of everyone else before myself and also even judged myself a little bit when I didn't. So, you know, I did individual work in therapy. That's not what everybody needs to do. Everybody is different, but definitely kind of, you know, some self-reflection and then also asking maybe of others what they do. Beause we are, a wealth of knowledge is around us. We can learn from each other so much. So even asking peers or friends or having the conversation and challenging the idea of normalizing Yes. Overwork and just like being exhausted and burnt out as a regular.
Sayeed 00:18:48 Absolutely. And I don't know about you, but I'm so appreciative of my friends who know me well enough and can kind of like see the signs because I don't know about y'all, but sometimes I get a little bit of tunnel vision. And so the little sign—I'd like to think I know myself well, but like any other person, I'm a human, I have mistakes. And at times even the signs of burnout start to creep up and you don't realize it because let's be real, the needs are always gonna be there. And the needs seem to always, unfortunately, go over then what our what our sort of our availability or capacity. And so my thing is I'm like, work, work work, or I'm getting a little bit stressed and I'm so thankful for my friends and family who can kind of reel me in or like check on me.
Sayeed 00:19:27 And sometimes that's simple. Like, hey, have you taken lunch yet? Or if a coworker's like, I'm gonna pick up something for you to eat, or do you want this? Let's go for a walk. Let's get some fresh air. Let's debrief after that goofy meeting. Like you never know. But those are moments that we're taking care of one another. And I think, and, and right now that's particularly important. And I think as well, something you shared, I like the language around sort of self-compassion versus maybe just self-care. Not that self-care itself isn't a good term, but I think sometimes that maybe the term gets a little bit commercialized, or this very like “Instagram ready” version of self-care. You know? Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? Because I feel like sometimes we may have lost the
Rosy 00:20:06 <laugh>. Oh, it's been definitely lost <laugh>. And now we like self-care is like, how can I perfectly self-care with my perfect masks, my perfect workout and my perfect schedule and I'm like, oh my God. Now self-care is turned into like self-harm. Like, it's not good. Like we're, we're telling ourselves we're pushing ourselves to do something. And also the way sometimes, um, in social media, also costs a lot of money. Yes. Not everyone has that kind of money. And it's also an immediate impulsive, like, maybe like solution, right? So like a mask, awesome. But like that's not going to make anything better regarding the fact that you get to work at super early before everyone else, super late after everyone else. And you can't remember the last time you said no to a new project that you never signed on to do, but just got a grant for, but now you're being told to do this.
Rosy 00:20:50 Right? And we know that is happening and we also know there's a lot of unknowns right now in our, in our fields, in the social service fields. So sometimes it makes us overwork, right? So one of my burnout things is, too, that I start scheduling even more and doing more, which doesn't make sense, right? Like, oh, I have a harder time setting boundaries when I know I'm burnt out. And that's why it's so important to communicate that, right? So if I told my supervisor if I start scheduling over my lunch too many times a week, I'm probably not doing too great. But I'm also not seeing it. If you could just gimme a little prompt like, Hey Rosy, I noticed you haven't taken it like a lunch All week or like a little less. And then he would do that when I needed. And he would just be like, Hey, I noticed that and it wouldn't take him that long to just look at my schedule and notice that and just gimme a little nudge. And it also just helped me to be like, oh, it's okay for me not to do that. Because I was a young professional at the time and I needed some mentoring and support on that.
Sayeed 00:21:52 Absolutely.
Rosy 00:21:52 Which expectations are also things that are not always communicated verbally.
Sayeed 00:21:57 Let's, let's talk about it <laugh>
Rosy 00:22:00 Right? So your, your boss or supervisor or, or your CEO is telling you to make sure you take days off, but you've, when did they take their last day off?
Sayeed 00:22:08 Or they're emailing you at 8:00 PM for a 9:00 AM meeting so you like wake up to a fun surprise, like, oh, <laugh>.
Rosy 00:22:17 Mixed messaging. Mixed messaging.
Sayeed 00:22:18 So that's something, especially I think in the social services, and right, we can think about it when we are serving our community and maybe many of them look like us or represent our family or our culture or our backgrounds, it's sometimes hard to say no. Or we think that like having compassion for ourselves means that we're not gonna be there for our community. And I'm learning it can’t be farther from the truth, right? Like, I need to be able to make sure that I'm well mentally, spiritually, physically, emotionally, so that I can continue to show up to do this work. And in turn, that's better work for my community and I am one of, part of my community, right? I think there's sometimes where were sold this idea, whether implicitly or explicitly, usually implicitly, right? Is like, oh, well, you know, it's like a badge of honor to, to go how many meetings you did in a row or how many things and you're so devoted to the cause and I'm so, and it's very moralistic and very sanctimonious, which are these like fancy words to be like, ha ha, I'm better than you because I slept less.
Sayeed 00:23:15 And I want to shift the culture to be like, actually we are checking in on one another and we are encouraging on one another to take our, our breaks, um, to make this work sustainable, to check in and think of this as more of a collective versus like, um, individual. And I also recognize that we are kind of swimming upstream with this sentiment because even in the social services right? We can't divorce it from the sector. And this idea that like, we're always supposed to be producing or doing a lot, a lot. And let's be real, we're not making, we're not necessarily in the work for the high pay. We're in the work oftentimes because we really, really have this value and this mission to support our community. So I just appreciate you kind of reshifting that. And I know you're doing incredible work as a therapist to help many folks, with wonderful intentions, but to really understand like, we've gotta figure out how to make this sustainable and that our needs are important too, or we're gonna end up burnt out and harmed as well.
Rosy 00:24:10 Yeah. And everything you said is true, right? Like, I've been trying to work against that culture and it's hard to, because you, sometimes there's even kind of like a little bit of a, oh, you're selfish or you just don't wanna work. Your generation just doesn't wanna work, right? And I'm not, I'm technically a millennial, but I don't, I don't know about that. I'm like a very old one. I guess I'm on the border with like X more a little bit. I feel like that's where I belong. But anyways, um, yeah, there's this, they, we start kind of vilifying the people who do set boundaries. Right? So like that's why culture is so important and that's why modeling is so important. So it's not just saying like, oh, please make sure you take your days off or after, you know, a certain time, please don't expect to get an email.
Rosy 00:24:55 Or you don't have to send me an email on the weekends unless it's like an event that's on the weekend. Or yeah, maybe we work crazy the two, three days or week before the actual event because it's coming up and coming up. But then everybody who was head on that event gets the next day off. You know? Like, and setting that trend and modeling that as well, because if you're not doing it, I am not gonna think it's okay to do. And that's the same with direct service, which sometimes we feel we need to be available 24/7. Because, you know, something would happen. But we have to give our clients some space to open their wings a little bit. It's scary, it's terrifying because what if they aren't able to do it and then we blame ourselves, but also there's, there's a give and pull there and trying to figure that out and hopefully that you have someone to talk to what that looks like.
Rosy 00:25:48 It's, it's expected that you're gonna be underpaid and overworked to the point that then we don't know where to where the line is. So then we push it a little too far. I'm not living in candy land where I think, oh, 'cause I said all these nice things about taking care of yourself, you're gonna be able to say no and not be overworked. No, that's not the reality. The reality is we're set up to be burnt out. To take care of ourselves and make changes in that culture. It's a radical thing and I'm about pushing it radically, but also being realistic about where you're at. So I understand that not everyone is gonna have access to being able to do these things, but like what do you have access to do? And where can you push? That's why I also do the work I do because I'll go into organizations as like a contract person, as an outside person,
Rosy 00:26:33 and I've done this before in many organizations where then they just tell me all their issues, all the tea, all the problems, because they're worried that if they say it, they're gonna get in trouble or be punished, which does happen. We all know that happens. Sometimes you get a little bit of like, oh, you're the problem child in the group. So I get it all told to me and then I, I don't work for them, you know, so I get to report it back up if they really care. And tell them without the person being held accountable. That's also why like anonymous ways of communication in different organizations. Does your organization have a way where you can give feedback in an anonymous manner that really is anonymous. Because the moment, if you are a one person office, one person department, and you gotta put what department you're in. You are fucked, right? So as a leader, and if you, as a supervisor, as a manager, as anyone who might hold a little power in these orgs and you're listening to us, I push you to ask yourselves, are we asking, are we asking our staff what's up? What's going on? And are we giving them space to anonymously, even if you think all your staff is happy and they love you and tell you everything, you should always have an anonymous way of giving feedback.
Sayeed 00:27:44 Oh no, absolutely. And I think that's like for the best or down to an org that has a lot of room for growth that kind of circles back or really connects to this idea around transparency as a value, right? Not just, oh, this word to say or something we think of, right? But like what does that actually look like in active participation? Oh, that means that organizations including program staff, not just executive leadership feels that they can share what's actually happening and an anonymous, you know, filter or survey or what have you, in order to be able to share that and protect people's confidentiality because, yeah, we also know that sometimes, um, we know folks, right, when you're swimming upstream or you're, you are the person to be brave and vulnerable to say, address like the harm or issues going on, unfortunately, sometimes we have that where that person is considered the troublemaker or that person gets a little bit of flack.
Sayeed 00:28:37 And so I think that's something we should be mindful of, because we don't want to reproduce that. And I honestly think as a sector, a social service sector and in the context of serving survivors, we actually have a higher litmus to be able to reproduce some of these values because that connects directly to the type of work we're doing with our survivors. So we need to internally work on that and making sure we're having levers for transparency and accountability and repairing any form of harm that may or may not happen. Because that is a direct reflection, in my opinion, of the values that we espouse to our community.
Rosy 00:29:10 Yeah. In the same way that we talked about anonymous. Yes. Everything you said. Yes. Anonymous, there's also different ways to ask, uh, for communication, right? There is the face-to-face, there's the zoom to zoom. Right? But even with your supervisor, if you're not a big fan of how, um, supervising is going, and if you are a supervisor, how are you creating space for your supervisee to communicate that their needs are being met or not? Do you ask, are there regular check-ins about these are the things we discussed in the beginning of the quarter that you wanted to address, or this is what you thought it could look like to be in supervision with me. Am I meeting that? What needs to change? And also allows them to not have to answer on the spot <laugh>, which is like crazy. Right? You know, tell them, hey, this is the question. Or maybe send them an email ahead of time. Give them the option to respond by email, to respond by audio file, to respond in person.
Sayeed 00:30:10 With a pigeon! We got budget for that?
Rosy 00:30:13 Hey, maybe what are ways that they can communicate their needs? Because, even if they feel comfortable with you, not everyone feels comfortable talking face to face with someone who controls their job.
Sayeed 00:30:24 I mean, that's really fair. And then a question for the supervisor is have you even crafted the relationship, um, to have that culture of accountability and transparency with your direct report? Because again, if we look at the power, right? And you're the supervisor who has access to your job and stuff, even with the best intentions, if you're not intentionally crafting that value of transparency, meeting your direct report where they're at, right? They may not feel super comfortable or if you've given all of those ways, it could be face to face or written out. But if they historically haven't felt like when they shared that they were listened to, that creates a pattern, a dynamic. And that takes time to repair that harm. Right. So I think just also being really real, where do I leverage power? Where do I shift that and where do I change that? And am I on the same page with those who are reporting to me?
Rosy 00:31:15 Power? Right? There's certain people who hold more power than others and that's why it's important to build, also, those relationships and expectations and accountability. And a lot of that is also just like policy and procedure. What is your policy and procedure? I remember asking one of my jobs, what's the policy and procedure? And they sent me this book and then nobody had read it in years and it hadn't been updated in five. And then every person I asked about it had a different answer to things. And the reality is, some people think that's not important or like either you overemphasize it, or you underemphasize it. Sometimes I think policy and procedure actually helps to reduce the harm that is done because you don't have people just going off nothing. There's some level of expectation that's actually written down so that you know where you're functioning from.
Rosy 00:32:01 And that's why you can have some sort of expectations at the beginning of supervising like, this is what I expect from my supervisee. And this is what you can expect from me. What do you wanna add or change? Let's write it down. It's a commitment. It's a level of contract that is going to also build that trust. You have something to reference. It's written down. It's not like, I don't know, when did I tell you that? You know, and we know, again, do I want us to not be overworked? Of course. But the reality is we are, you know, there's a lot of things we're juggling. So the more we can write something down that we can reference again and remember what was happening, the better it'll be for all of us.
Sayeed 00:32:40 Well, and on that point, I just want to emphasize, you know, strong operations, strong resource support, it saves every party. Right? A lot of headache, heartache, whatever you want to call it. Because both the supervisee and supervisor can reference that. And that's just sort of less work, right? Less work going back and forth. Less work being like, well what's gonna happen? What's, what's the expectation? Right? Actually it's been laid out. And again, that requires that both priorities are actually adhering to it, following it, and that it stays up to date and current. But I think really this investment in this thinking about wellness, which goes back to organizational culture, if there's sort of a strong base, right? And sometimes thinking about the house, like you need your base to be strong. If you add more people to it and y'all dancing, you have a little fiesta, you have an added thing. But we looking and I'm like, okay, the lumber, the support is looking a little shoddy. Like we might have some issues there.
Rosy 00:33:33 People are wavering.
Sayeed 00:33:34 Exactly. Exactly. I don't know about y'all, but we in the windy city, so I'm trying to have a strong base. No, that's my corny dad joke for the podcast. I'm allotted one. Um, no, but to just think like, I know I find peace and comfort and the way that I can, for myself, try to address anxiousness or anxiety is often, comes from more information, access to equitable information. Now I know that's not always the case and I've had to learn to regulate myself and be in the sense of like, sometimes you have to be flexible. Because now everything's clean and cut and everything. But then other times as well, you are, especially as, as a worker, you are entitled to know what your expectations are. Right. And so that's education and that's access to power. And that's also a reflection of the values of the organization.
Sayeed 00:34:18 Which again, goes back to our sort of accountability and transparency. Am I aware of what's being asked of me? Is my supervisor aware of it? Is it being kind of levelly treated across my coworkers and my team and my department? These are all questions that we can get into and that I think that are important to engage from the get go. Right. Or to have a sort of continuous check-in as you're working this organization because it's easy to kind of veer off track or things go little by little. And then you look back and you're like, wait, why was I putting up with all that?
Rosy 00:34:49 Yeah. In a, in a place we're talking about of a lot of unknowns, you can have policy and procedure and you keep it flexible. By having updates.
Sayeed 00:34:56 Absolutely.
Rosy 00:34:57 Built in. Right? So having check-ins. Does this still make sense? There's also people who have policy and procedure and just refuse to change it.
Sayeed 00:35:04 And maybe you can actually invite the, I don't know, like radical thought, but maybe invite the people working there, ask them ask how is it working for you?
Rosy 00:35:14 I know, how radical that thought is. And when you ask, okay, so are the people actually doing the work part of developing your strategic plan? Because they're gonna have to implement it, right? Things like that. Transparency, accountability, expectations. And some of these can be hard conversations because sometimes you do have to push against power. And we get scared. This is our livelihood, this is how we pay the bills, this is how we feed our children, put a roof on our head, whatever that may be. And we need to sometimes figure out, do I have the energy that it might take to push and hopefully you're in an organization where people are listening and they're not gonna kind of scapegoat you or treat you as the problem child. But what I also say is like, find peers, find other people that might be thinking the same and start conversations.
Rosy 00:36:03 Because there is more power in community. So maybe you draft a letter, and you put that together and you have a few people on it. So you're not just one person. Or if you are able to have a resource like the Dear Rosy sending us a question or asking for a little side advice, things like that to get more support on how to do it. That's also something. You're not alone. I mean that's one of the big reasons we're doing this with our our first episode right? Is we want to let people know that the problem you're having is not, usually not the single person having it. Okay. There are a lot of patterns that we see and a lot of need in order to create some change in a culture that sometimes does not focus on wellness and provides wellness support, <laugh>, you know? So I think it's important to continue to have these conversations, this accountability topic of today in communication. Well we will see that probably sprinkled throughout every single episode that we do. This is not the only time we will be hearing some of these words from us,
Sayeed 00:37:07 But Absolutely. And I think as well to that compliment is that this is not the only time we're gonna reference, you know, building community, working with your colleagues, mobilizing, utilizing your different support networks. Right? I think that's something I've learned in the work here. It's so crucial, right? And it takes a lot of us. And I sometimes struggle to even just pause the work at home. That's been such a key lesson to be able to return to it fully. But my friends, my community, right? Like that's what really sustains me. And when I say that, I mean that both, you know, I'm fortunate enough to work with a team that I really appreciate and since we're in a similar context, similar org, right? We can sort of support our challenges and successes. We can celebrate one another, but we can also, you know, provide each other advice and support for difficult things.
Sayeed 00:37:53 And then afterwards I think it's so healthy and necessary. I have friends who don't have any connection to this work. It's so key. You need somebody because sometimes you talk to somebody about something and I don't know, I'll be like, girl is this, am I tripping? Or is this like this? Or a really flattering thing will be like, oh yeah, this XY, Z happened, I did something that I’m proud of, but I don't really like gas it up or hype it up. And they'll be like, wait, that's huge. You spoke on a conference by yourself or like a panel. And I'll be like, yeah, but it was nothing. They're like, you need to stop doing that. And I'm like, thank you. So like on both sides, you know, celebrate the successes, we've got the challenges, but making sure that they hype up, you know, your professional wins as well.
Rosy 00:38:32 Yeah. So we're seeking support so we can do both. Both. Because sometimes it's also important to, not sometimes, we should always be giving ourselves a lot of attention for all the amazing work that we are doing. Um, I think it's important to name that it is extremely difficult to do this work. We are set up for burnout. There are different ways that we can be harmed sometimes and feel completely powerless. And then as time goes, sometimes we lose funding or we miss a client or we hear someone really struggling that we can't help 'cause they're not in the boundaries of what we can do. And sometimes we can feel really hopeless and it's scary to feel that way. And I think feeling hopeless is also something that's gonna happen. But it doesn't mean you have to stay there and just telling yourself, oh this is, this is a sign of something that I'm feeling.
Rosy 00:39:20 I'm feeling hopeless. What do I need right now? Maybe I just need to feel sad. Maybe I need to talk to someone else. Maybe it's telling me I actually need a whole day off or I actually need to have a conversation with my supervisor. So many things. But listening to ourselves and how we're feeling and also understanding that you're not alone. You're not the only one usually feeling this way. We have other people who have been in similar situations and we have gone through that season and we get to the other side of that season. <laugh>,
Sayeed 00:39:50 Wake it up. You do not have to go it alone. If there's something we can end or share, and I'm saying this to y'all, but also to myself as a continual reminder, right? You don't have to go it alone. You don't have to go through your challenges alone, nor should you go through even your successes, share that out with one another. Be celebrated because this work is hard and I'm learning in order for it to be sustainable, to make this, um, as we deserve. Our work is very important and we deserve for it to be sustainable. And we deserve to do this work without feeling burnout all the time. And hopefully never, but let's be real, sometimes we do feel it. We're humans. It's to say that we need our community, we need the support, we need this like the guidance and advice. And I think that's what we hope for y'all. We want Dear Rosy Hey Sayeed to be kind of a platform that you can share some of your ideas, your concerns, your celebrations, your challenges, and just a way to level and think of as another sort of resource or form of support. Because we recognize this work is difficult and we have to sustain one another in order to make the work itself sustainable.
Rosy 00:40:52 Yeah. So if you're going through something, you're really not sure what's the next step, but you know, something's up and you're just not feeling like you're being heard or don't know how to have the conversation with those who have the power. We hope that Dear Rosy can be an outlet for you to ask us. We can talk about it sometimes we're not gonna know, but I know if we talk about it for a little bit, we're gonna figure it out with sight.. We're gonna go back and forth and we're gonna find some sort of things. We'll chop it up. <laugh>. Yeah. We'll find out some action stuff, some kind of support or at least make you hopefully smile and feel definitely supported. 'cause we all deserve the support.
Sayeed 00:41:23 Awesome. Thank you so much. Um, I wanna invite Rosy, if you feel comfortable to maybe just do a little deep breath rounding exercise as we close out. And I want to thank the listeners today for spending some time with us.
Rosy 00:41:37 Yes. Thank you to everyone who got to listen to our first episode. I am very grateful to be here. And we talk about a lot of different topics, a lot of big scary things sometimes in here that bring up some big scary emotions or make our body feel a little bit tense or a little bit riled up. So I don't wanna leave you on that note. We don't wanna leave you there, so I'm just gonna ask that wherever you're at, if you are at home, in your bed or if you're on your couch walking around, if you are in a car sitting down, you just try to take a nice deep breath in through your nose. You hold your breath 1, 2, 3, and slowly breathe out through your mouth. We are gonna do one more deep breath in through your nose, filling up your chest, your ribs, expand, holding your breath. And let it out through your mouth. Roll your shoulders back a little bit, stretch them out. Maybe wiggle them a little bit. If it feels good. Roll your neck around. Feel what that feels like for you up and down, stretching your face
Rosy 00:43:08 And feel yourself fully in your body. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Sayeed 00:43:15 Alright, thank y'all. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks for joining us.